Thoughts on driving the RSX/EP3 Civic Si at the limit
07-20-2009, 01:31 PM
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Thoughts on driving the RSX/EP3 Civic Si at the limit
*The following was done on a sanctioned race track and should never be attempted on public roads. Try this on public roads, YOU WILL DIE (well, maybe not, but the chances are extremely high).
After many years of development on the RSX as my race program, to get the most out of the car during competitive driving will lead you away from the standardized lines that one would be taught during race school. Due to the suspension design, taking a nice, easy curved race line is not the fastest way around the track in this vehicle. The driving style requires much more weight transfer and be driven more aggressively. The downside to this style of driving is that you tend to go through tires and brakes much more.
To focus more on steering inputs, you really need to "man-handle" the car and basically try and induce oversteer, which the car will step out readily. Unlike driving the Integra and Civic chassis of years past, where a standard race line gives the best balance, I've noticed that the best way is to turn in late and hard and off throttle. At which you must be ready with some countersteer and gas down to recover. This is probably the exact opposite of what many instructors will teach.
So, with knowing how the car wants to be driven, its time to setup the suspension to take advantage of that. The chassis is a very stiff chassis to start off with, which is a good thing. Stiffening up the chassis more will only improve how the vehicle handles, however there is only so far you can go before gains become marginal.
On Type S models, the front strut tower bar IMO is very well designed and probably does not need to be changed out from a function standpoint. The underside on the subframe, it can definitely take advantage of increasing torsional rigidity. Something like the Neuspeed X-Brace will be able to brace this area very well and be cost effective. On the rear side of the vehicle, at the strut towers, you will see brackets that are appendages from the Type R. So, a Type R rear strut tower brace (or as the dumbasses like to call, a floor brace) along with a rear chassis brace like the Neuspeed or Mugen units will bring the torsional rigidity in line with the torsional rigidity of the front end of the chassis. I don't think the chassis can take advantage of any rear lower subframe bracing other then being mounting brackets for aftermarket rear sway bars.
Spring and shock setup on this vehicle needs to be setup more so like a European car. What that means is that there's more focus on the damper then on the spring rates. What that means is running a relatively softer spring rates while running higher damping rates. You want the car to lean a little so the suspension design can take advantage of the weight transfer you're providing. Basically, you want the damper's low speed compression and rebound to be high enough to help minimize roll, but spring rates low enough to allow some roll to happen while having minimized deflection in the chassis and bushings (the reason why I first started talking about chassis in the paragraph before). This is why I've tended to favor a lot of the of the European/European based designed coilovers like Penske, Moton, Bilstein, KW, etc. And yes, they do cost quite a bit more then most other coilover systems on the market, but they really are just that damn good. Good suspension lets your car handle, not hurt your kidneys.
Sway bars also help with the dynamics of cornering on the vehicle, but not to the extent that was stated above. With sway bars, it's really a balancing act between front and rear. Too stiff in either end will have an effect of increasing under or over steer and just too stiff may have an effect that minimizes the effect of weight transfer to each corner of the vehicle. Again, like I said its a balancing act between front to rear as well as the rest of your chassis/suspension setup.
After many years of development on the RSX as my race program, to get the most out of the car during competitive driving will lead you away from the standardized lines that one would be taught during race school. Due to the suspension design, taking a nice, easy curved race line is not the fastest way around the track in this vehicle. The driving style requires much more weight transfer and be driven more aggressively. The downside to this style of driving is that you tend to go through tires and brakes much more.
To focus more on steering inputs, you really need to "man-handle" the car and basically try and induce oversteer, which the car will step out readily. Unlike driving the Integra and Civic chassis of years past, where a standard race line gives the best balance, I've noticed that the best way is to turn in late and hard and off throttle. At which you must be ready with some countersteer and gas down to recover. This is probably the exact opposite of what many instructors will teach.
So, with knowing how the car wants to be driven, its time to setup the suspension to take advantage of that. The chassis is a very stiff chassis to start off with, which is a good thing. Stiffening up the chassis more will only improve how the vehicle handles, however there is only so far you can go before gains become marginal.
On Type S models, the front strut tower bar IMO is very well designed and probably does not need to be changed out from a function standpoint. The underside on the subframe, it can definitely take advantage of increasing torsional rigidity. Something like the Neuspeed X-Brace will be able to brace this area very well and be cost effective. On the rear side of the vehicle, at the strut towers, you will see brackets that are appendages from the Type R. So, a Type R rear strut tower brace (or as the dumbasses like to call, a floor brace) along with a rear chassis brace like the Neuspeed or Mugen units will bring the torsional rigidity in line with the torsional rigidity of the front end of the chassis. I don't think the chassis can take advantage of any rear lower subframe bracing other then being mounting brackets for aftermarket rear sway bars.
Spring and shock setup on this vehicle needs to be setup more so like a European car. What that means is that there's more focus on the damper then on the spring rates. What that means is running a relatively softer spring rates while running higher damping rates. You want the car to lean a little so the suspension design can take advantage of the weight transfer you're providing. Basically, you want the damper's low speed compression and rebound to be high enough to help minimize roll, but spring rates low enough to allow some roll to happen while having minimized deflection in the chassis and bushings (the reason why I first started talking about chassis in the paragraph before). This is why I've tended to favor a lot of the of the European/European based designed coilovers like Penske, Moton, Bilstein, KW, etc. And yes, they do cost quite a bit more then most other coilover systems on the market, but they really are just that damn good. Good suspension lets your car handle, not hurt your kidneys.
Sway bars also help with the dynamics of cornering on the vehicle, but not to the extent that was stated above. With sway bars, it's really a balancing act between front and rear. Too stiff in either end will have an effect of increasing under or over steer and just too stiff may have an effect that minimizes the effect of weight transfer to each corner of the vehicle. Again, like I said its a balancing act between front to rear as well as the rest of your chassis/suspension setup.
07-21-2009, 01:07 PM
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Great write up, I have reduced almost all of the body roll on my CL and it turns/corners so much better now than stock. Another must for anyone looking to revamp their suspension setup is to replace all the rubber suspension bushings with a polyurethayne bushing set like the Energy Suspension set, VERY worth the money and effort 
07-21-2009, 02:24 PM
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If the car is track only, like how my RSX is, then the best thing to do is go with some non-compliant bearings so you can remove any amount of deformation that rubber or polyurethane bushings have. Things that I've liked about the stock bushings are their longevity, and forgiveness.
02-18-2010, 11:24 PM
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This is why I've tended to favor a lot of the of the European/European based designed coilovers like Penske, Moton, Bilstein, KW, etc. And yes, they do cost quite a bit more then most other coilover systems on the market, but they really are just that damn good. Good suspension lets your car handle, not hurt your kidneys.
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